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	<title>Comments on: Science has its own, bigger Bernie Madoff</title>
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	<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/science-has-its-own-bigger-bernie-madoff.htm</link>
	<description>Reviewing scientific paradigms and other general beliefs in the light of the scientific and professional literature</description>
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		<title>By: Truthseeker</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/science-has-its-own-bigger-bernie-madoff.htm/comment-page-3#comment-7951</link>
		<dc:creator>Truthseeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/?p=1808#comment-7951</guid>
		<description>By the way, we may do a wrap up post on Bernie Madoff, who has now been flung into a hellhole where he is being harassed and worse by lowlifes according to the New York dailies, for no very good reason that we can see when we compare what he did with the very similar confidence game run by the bankers who taxpayers have now bailed out to the tune of hundreds of billions.

They after all sold billions of securities under false pretences to investors round the world, lying as to their worth, and betraying the trust of those that did business with them. Their reward was not to go to jail for life in a hell hole.  It was to be forgiven and made whole by the taxpayers whose money is now being doled out by the President according to his policy of making sure the banking system at some point not yet reached will resume lending the money to business.

Compared with this, what did Bernie do?  He merely lied to friends and strangers and betrayed their trust, took their money and simply transferred ownership of it from B to A - B being the latecomers and A being the ones who were involved earlier.  He didn&#039;t even lose any of it in bad investments or the stock market.  He skimmed a little  - maybe a billion - to give his family what they needed ie large houses, education, etc. and buy a few toys.  Most of that is back in government hands.

Meanwhile those who have lost money with Madoff - the Bs - are bust, but only until the A&#039;s. who pocketed their money, give it back.  Of course, the A&#039;s are all busy saying Who me?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, we may do a wrap up post on Bernie Madoff, who has now been flung into a hellhole where he is being harassed and worse by lowlifes according to the New York dailies, for no very good reason that we can see when we compare what he did with the very similar confidence game run by the bankers who taxpayers have now bailed out to the tune of hundreds of billions.</p>
<p>They after all sold billions of securities under false pretences to investors round the world, lying as to their worth, and betraying the trust of those that did business with them. Their reward was not to go to jail for life in a hell hole.  It was to be forgiven and made whole by the taxpayers whose money is now being doled out by the President according to his policy of making sure the banking system at some point not yet reached will resume lending the money to business.</p>
<p>Compared with this, what did Bernie do?  He merely lied to friends and strangers and betrayed their trust, took their money and simply transferred ownership of it from B to A &#8211; B being the latecomers and A being the ones who were involved earlier.  He didn&#8217;t even lose any of it in bad investments or the stock market.  He skimmed a little  &#8211; maybe a billion &#8211; to give his family what they needed ie large houses, education, etc. and buy a few toys.  Most of that is back in government hands.</p>
<p>Meanwhile those who have lost money with Madoff &#8211; the Bs &#8211; are bust, but only until the A&#8217;s. who pocketed their money, give it back.  Of course, the A&#8217;s are all busy saying Who me?</p>
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		<title>By: Truthseeker</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/science-has-its-own-bigger-bernie-madoff.htm/comment-page-3#comment-7940</link>
		<dc:creator>Truthseeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/?p=1808#comment-7940</guid>
		<description>Everything you say is true, gentlemen, in regard to the many reasons to doubt now that Obama will ever be as radical as the Bush mess cleanup needs; our only difference is that we imagine that organizing change in this society, riddled as it is with powerful interests that have been enabled by the Republicans to throw a spanner in the works of any move to curtail their profits or other benefits, is rather like driving with the handbrake on.  Even a Ferrari can&#039;t drive at full speed through a traffic jam. 

You rush to knock Obama&#039;s halo over the railing but we just see him trying to get what is needed done against entrenched interests and making sure he has eight years instead of four to do it.

The main reason we think that we are right in this regard is that all the criticism hasn&#039;t yet gained traction, which suggests that there is nothing inside the White House to back it up.  If there was it would be a footlight issue, but it&#039;s not.  Almost everybody who voted for Obama is fretting at all the indications you mention that Obama may not deliver as much as they hoped, but they still feel he is trying, and they trust him.  

So is Obama just a clever conman who knew how to get elected but really is a conservative wolf in sheep&#039;s clothing?  Or is he simply the community leader type who gets things done by seeking consensus, rather than overriding dissent and bullying people into backing down and cooperating?

The professional skeptics and doubters tend to the first, we acknowledge that. And given the deceits that politics forces on its players, they are often vindicated.  In this case, we think both sides make their point, but neither case is overwhelming on the record so far, so we are forced to retreat to examining the person himself as he acts and portrays himself in the media, how he speaks and behaves officially and unofficially, how he talks to the media and what he wrote long before he gained high office.  

But it is hard to deny that there is a lot of disappointment for anyone whose hopes blossomed in the speedy success which Mr Change won the Oval Office and tackled so many issues so early.  And we grant you that he doesn&#039;t seem to have acted as decisively to help the poor and the weak and the homeless as he should have, and the bankers and other plundering moneybags seem to have walked, as usual (current surprise cost of simply checking one&#039;s balance at Citibank at a Chase ATM machine? $6).

The economy is not going to go anywhere is the next six months so let&#039;s see what happens now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everything you say is true, gentlemen, in regard to the many reasons to doubt now that Obama will ever be as radical as the Bush mess cleanup needs; our only difference is that we imagine that organizing change in this society, riddled as it is with powerful interests that have been enabled by the Republicans to throw a spanner in the works of any move to curtail their profits or other benefits, is rather like driving with the handbrake on.  Even a Ferrari can&#8217;t drive at full speed through a traffic jam. </p>
<p>You rush to knock Obama&#8217;s halo over the railing but we just see him trying to get what is needed done against entrenched interests and making sure he has eight years instead of four to do it.</p>
<p>The main reason we think that we are right in this regard is that all the criticism hasn&#8217;t yet gained traction, which suggests that there is nothing inside the White House to back it up.  If there was it would be a footlight issue, but it&#8217;s not.  Almost everybody who voted for Obama is fretting at all the indications you mention that Obama may not deliver as much as they hoped, but they still feel he is trying, and they trust him.  </p>
<p>So is Obama just a clever conman who knew how to get elected but really is a conservative wolf in sheep&#8217;s clothing?  Or is he simply the community leader type who gets things done by seeking consensus, rather than overriding dissent and bullying people into backing down and cooperating?</p>
<p>The professional skeptics and doubters tend to the first, we acknowledge that. And given the deceits that politics forces on its players, they are often vindicated.  In this case, we think both sides make their point, but neither case is overwhelming on the record so far, so we are forced to retreat to examining the person himself as he acts and portrays himself in the media, how he speaks and behaves officially and unofficially, how he talks to the media and what he wrote long before he gained high office.  </p>
<p>But it is hard to deny that there is a lot of disappointment for anyone whose hopes blossomed in the speedy success which Mr Change won the Oval Office and tackled so many issues so early.  And we grant you that he doesn&#8217;t seem to have acted as decisively to help the poor and the weak and the homeless as he should have, and the bankers and other plundering moneybags seem to have walked, as usual (current surprise cost of simply checking one&#8217;s balance at Citibank at a Chase ATM machine? $6).</p>
<p>The economy is not going to go anywhere is the next six months so let&#8217;s see what happens now.</p>
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		<title>By: MacDonald</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/science-has-its-own-bigger-bernie-madoff.htm/comment-page-3#comment-7939</link>
		<dc:creator>MacDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/?p=1808#comment-7939</guid>
		<description>The Blog Host is being very persuasive, as he knows we could never disagreee with pollsters, epidemiologists or the taste buds of the majority of flies. 

We would, however, like to back up our suspicions that Obama&#039;s environmentally friendly speeches amount to little more than a velvet fist in an iron glove with this from Greenpeace:

&quot;Washington, D.C., United States — In advance of tomorrow’s vote on the American Clean Energy and Security Act in the House of Representatives, Greenpeace USA Deputy Campaigns Director Carroll Muffett issued the following statement:

&quot;Since the Waxman-Markey bill left the Energy and Commerce committee, yet another fleet of industry lobbysists has weakened the bill even more, and further widened the gap between what Waxman-Markey does and what science demands. As a result, Greenpeace opposes this bill in its current form. We are calling upon Congress to vote against this bill unless substantial measures are taken to strengthen it. Despite President Obama’s assurance that he would enact strong, science-based legislation, we are now watching him put his full support behind a bill that chooses politics over science, elevates industry interests over national interest, and shows the significant limitations of what this Congress believes is possible. 

“As it comes to the floor, the Waxman-Markey bill sets emission reduction targets far lower than science demands, then undermines even those targets with massive offsets. The giveaways and preferences in the bill will actually spur a new generation of nuclear and coal-fired power plants to the detriment of real energy solutions. To support such a bill is to abandon the real leadership that is called for at this pivotal moment in history.  We simply no longer have the time for legislation this weak.   

“With many others in the environmental, faith and consumer rights communities, Greenpeace has expressed tremendous concern about the role of offsets in this legislation.  Unless strictly controlled, the abuse of offsets could prevent real emission reductions for more than a decade.  The decision to move authority over offsets from EPA to the Department of Agriculture further reduces the likelihood that such controls will be maintained and increases the likelihood they will undermine real reductions. 

This legislation sends a strong and unmistakable signal to the world that the United States is not yet ready to show the leadership necessary to reach a strong agreement at Copenhagen in December.  Already, we are seeing the impact of this signal as one country after another retreats from the aggressive targets needed to avoid catastrophic climate change. 

We call on the Congress to reject this bill and begin immediate and urgent work on legislation that treats seriously the dire threat of climate change.  We call on President Obama to move beyond rhetoric and deliver on his commitments to “restore science to its proper place” and to lead the world in addressing climate change.&quot;

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press-center/releases2/greenpeace-opposes-waxman-mark


Apparently a watered down Cap and Trade bill, ignoring the Doomsday predictions of Holy Science and caving to pressure from the usual suspects. 

The credit card reform seems to be of the same type: a populistic baby step to make us swallow bailouts, government takeovers, multimillion CEO compensation and foreclosures (the promised bankruptcy reform for homeowners not manifesting)

We remain respectfully underwhelmed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Blog Host is being very persuasive, as he knows we could never disagreee with pollsters, epidemiologists or the taste buds of the majority of flies. </p>
<p>We would, however, like to back up our suspicions that Obama&#8217;s environmentally friendly speeches amount to little more than a velvet fist in an iron glove with this from Greenpeace:</p>
<p>&#8220;Washington, D.C., United States — In advance of tomorrow’s vote on the American Clean Energy and Security Act in the House of Representatives, Greenpeace USA Deputy Campaigns Director Carroll Muffett issued the following statement:</p>
<p>&#8220;Since the Waxman-Markey bill left the Energy and Commerce committee, yet another fleet of industry lobbysists has weakened the bill even more, and further widened the gap between what Waxman-Markey does and what science demands. As a result, Greenpeace opposes this bill in its current form. We are calling upon Congress to vote against this bill unless substantial measures are taken to strengthen it. Despite President Obama’s assurance that he would enact strong, science-based legislation, we are now watching him put his full support behind a bill that chooses politics over science, elevates industry interests over national interest, and shows the significant limitations of what this Congress believes is possible. </p>
<p>“As it comes to the floor, the Waxman-Markey bill sets emission reduction targets far lower than science demands, then undermines even those targets with massive offsets. The giveaways and preferences in the bill will actually spur a new generation of nuclear and coal-fired power plants to the detriment of real energy solutions. To support such a bill is to abandon the real leadership that is called for at this pivotal moment in history.  We simply no longer have the time for legislation this weak.   </p>
<p>“With many others in the environmental, faith and consumer rights communities, Greenpeace has expressed tremendous concern about the role of offsets in this legislation.  Unless strictly controlled, the abuse of offsets could prevent real emission reductions for more than a decade.  The decision to move authority over offsets from EPA to the Department of Agriculture further reduces the likelihood that such controls will be maintained and increases the likelihood they will undermine real reductions. </p>
<p>This legislation sends a strong and unmistakable signal to the world that the United States is not yet ready to show the leadership necessary to reach a strong agreement at Copenhagen in December.  Already, we are seeing the impact of this signal as one country after another retreats from the aggressive targets needed to avoid catastrophic climate change. </p>
<p>We call on the Congress to reject this bill and begin immediate and urgent work on legislation that treats seriously the dire threat of climate change.  We call on President Obama to move beyond rhetoric and deliver on his commitments to “restore science to its proper place” and to lead the world in addressing climate change.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press-center/releases2/greenpeace-opposes-waxman-mark" rel="nofollow">http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press-center/releases2/greenpeace-opposes-waxman-mark</a></p>
<p>Apparently a watered down Cap and Trade bill, ignoring the Doomsday predictions of Holy Science and caving to pressure from the usual suspects. </p>
<p>The credit card reform seems to be of the same type: a populistic baby step to make us swallow bailouts, government takeovers, multimillion CEO compensation and foreclosures (the promised bankruptcy reform for homeowners not manifesting)</p>
<p>We remain respectfully underwhelmed.</p>
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		<title>By: Truthseeker</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/science-has-its-own-bigger-bernie-madoff.htm/comment-page-3#comment-7932</link>
		<dc:creator>Truthseeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/?p=1808#comment-7932</guid>
		<description>To equate Obama with Bush and Cheney is absurd, even if you can&#039;t see his halo.  61% of the world can, according to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;worldpublicopinion.org:&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Asked whether they have confidence in Barack Obama to &quot;do the right thing regarding world affairs,&quot; for all nations (excluding the US) an average of 61 percent say they have some or a lot of confidence.&lt;/i&gt;

Obama immediately led the US into rejoining the international community and acting in concert with partners and the UN to pressure regimes who do not live up to international norms.  

Our new international community leaders acts in a discreet and sensible manner, however, in treating them with respect, instead of arousing unnecessary antagonism in the manner of Bush and Cheney - a revision of US strategy exactly in the mode otherwise approved by MacD. 

Those who cannot see that Obama is acting on a plane above Bush and Cheney are the ones who should join the Fox network surely.  At the very least, they suggest they are blind to the man who stands in front of them, and instead are swayed by excessive pessimism and distaste for having faith in a leader who has graced us by stepping down from the right hand of the Almighty on high-- ouch!

(Enough of that. - Ed.  (armed with sharp stick))

Obama is a man who characteristically leads with the best methods, as he has demonstrated in his campaign, in Washington and at G8 - charming the crowd and other leaders with sense and suggestion and taking the reflexively resistant, Not Invented Here types off into the corner and persuading them with reason and not raw power, which only creates more resistance. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To equate Obama with Bush and Cheney is absurd, even if you can&#8217;t see his halo.  61% of the world can, according to <a href="http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/" rel="nofollow"><b><u>worldpublicopinion.org:</u></b></a></p>
<p><i>Asked whether they have confidence in Barack Obama to &#8220;do the right thing regarding world affairs,&#8221; for all nations (excluding the US) an average of 61 percent say they have some or a lot of confidence.</i></p>
<p>Obama immediately led the US into rejoining the international community and acting in concert with partners and the UN to pressure regimes who do not live up to international norms.  </p>
<p>Our new international community leaders acts in a discreet and sensible manner, however, in treating them with respect, instead of arousing unnecessary antagonism in the manner of Bush and Cheney &#8211; a revision of US strategy exactly in the mode otherwise approved by MacD. </p>
<p>Those who cannot see that Obama is acting on a plane above Bush and Cheney are the ones who should join the Fox network surely.  At the very least, they suggest they are blind to the man who stands in front of them, and instead are swayed by excessive pessimism and distaste for having faith in a leader who has graced us by stepping down from the right hand of the Almighty on high&#8211; ouch!</p>
<p>(Enough of that. &#8211; Ed.  (armed with sharp stick))</p>
<p>Obama is a man who characteristically leads with the best methods, as he has demonstrated in his campaign, in Washington and at G8 &#8211; charming the crowd and other leaders with sense and suggestion and taking the reflexively resistant, Not Invented Here types off into the corner and persuading them with reason and not raw power, which only creates more resistance.</p>
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