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	<title>Comments on: Slate&#8217;s misguided guide</title>
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	<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm</link>
	<description>Reviewing scientific paradigms and other general beliefs in the light of the scientific amd professional literature</description>
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		<title>By: Truthseeker</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5845</link>
		<dc:creator>Truthseeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm#comment-5845</guid>
		<description>The suspicion is that either they benefit in some concrete way ie money or connections or that they are Net nitwits without a life  - Chris Noble being one of the latter, we believe, on the basis of no actual concrete evidence whatsoever, but who would waste his own and others&#039; time and lives in his fashion unless deluded psychologically as well as scientifically?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The suspicion is that either they benefit in some concrete way ie money or connections or that they are Net nitwits without a life  &#8211; Chris Noble being one of the latter, we believe, on the basis of no actual concrete evidence whatsoever, but who would waste his own and others&#8217; time and lives in his fashion unless deluded psychologically as well as scientifically?</p>
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		<title>By: Cathyvm</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5844</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathyvm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 05:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm#comment-5844</guid>
		<description>I think it is hilarious for whelkboy to spend so much time and effort &quot;deconstructing&quot; an article he didn&#039;t even know I had actually written.
Have these meme-infected twits nothing better to do? Ad hominem attacks are one thing but actually having to trawl the Internet to find things (or create) in order to criticise (when they don&#039;t actually know who is who) is just too pathetic for words. I do hope these deluded individuals are not involved directly with the care of any patients because that is too frightening a thought to contemplate.
I would like to think that this kind of behaviour speaks for itself and that anyone not already &#039;brainsnatched&quot; by the meme will see the lack of integrity, honesty and even common decency is all too obvious in the rabid defenders of this terribly flawed and genocidal paradigm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is hilarious for whelkboy to spend so much time and effort &#8220;deconstructing&#8221; an article he didn&#8217;t even know I had actually written.<br />
Have these meme-infected twits nothing better to do? Ad hominem attacks are one thing but actually having to trawl the Internet to find things (or create) in order to criticise (when they don&#8217;t actually know who is who) is just too pathetic for words. I do hope these deluded individuals are not involved directly with the care of any patients because that is too frightening a thought to contemplate.<br />
I would like to think that this kind of behaviour speaks for itself and that anyone not already &#8216;brainsnatched&#8221; by the meme will see the lack of integrity, honesty and even common decency is all too obvious in the rabid defenders of this terribly flawed and genocidal paradigm.</p>
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		<title>By: Truthseeker</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5840</link>
		<dc:creator>Truthseeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm#comment-5840</guid>
		<description>No sooner requested than done, MacD (the editing you requested). 

But possibly you could add a head and subhead to the above, could you?  Admirers of your grasp of this particular paradigm squabble and its cast of grubby minor defenders need to have such as the tiny tots of daily errands and responsibilities elsewhere tug at their sleeves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No sooner requested than done, MacD (the editing you requested). </p>
<p>But possibly you could add a head and subhead to the above, could you?  Admirers of your grasp of this particular paradigm squabble and its cast of grubby minor defenders need to have such as the tiny tots of daily errands and responsibilities elsewhere tug at their sleeves.</p>
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		<title>By: MacDonald</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5839</link>
		<dc:creator>MacDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceguardian.com/blog/slates-misguided-guide.htm#comment-5839</guid>
		<description>Please read this classical study in the behaviour of the AIDStruth animal in its natural habitat on Aetiology. Incredibly, they are so used to these tactics that they even brag about it. First up is ElkMountainMan, the same â€œscientistâ€ who tried to spread the lying rumours that Duesberg was distancing himself from Michael Geiger, then MECâ€™s response:

&quot;Soon, I am sure, one of our denialist friends will rise to the occasion and educate us on how a squalene- and mercury-free DNA injection boosts anti-SIV immunity, and on how full-length SIV DNA, injected with nothing but the buffer itâ€™s resuspended in, can cause AIDS.

Until then, I am left with nothing to do but retrieve my ugly pedantâ€™s cap (which I tossed into the umbrella rack after Patâ€™s English lesson) and ponder the merits in the work of a professional â€œmedical writer/researcher.â€ 

This yawn-inspiring task began with an email I received last night from someone apparently operating under the mistaken assumption that I was interested in learning the identity of â€œCathy.â€ Attached was a Word document with the text of a May 14, 2007 opinion letter from a New Zealand publication called â€œScoop,â€ playfully entitled, â€œGardasil: The Mercky World of Anti-Cancer Vaccines.â€ The author, it was claimed, is the same Cathy who posted here of late.

The letter-writerâ€™s name, I soon found, is also present on David Croweâ€™s famous list of 2500 renouned scientists and doctors as a â€œmedical writer/researcher.â€ Because of these impressive denialist credentials (and since she had recently criticized my admittedly middling English skills), I decided to read her â€œScoopâ€ op-ed.

As I recently reminded Pat, itâ€™s best to criticize the writing of others from a position of strength. Imagine my surprise, then, (assuming Cathy is, in fact, the â€œScoopâ€ Cathy) to find numerous errors in the first few paragraphs of the piece.

In the letter, the author smears Gardasil as being a brand, â€œmuch like Coca Cola or MacDonaldsâ€. â€œCoca-Colaâ€ is of course hyphenated, and the fast-food giant with the golden arches is â€œMcDonaldâ€™sâ€ not â€œMacDonaldsâ€.

The writer asks, â€œWere Ministry of Health officials asleep when this one [Merckâ€™s assertion that Gardasil protects against HPV-associated cancer] snuck under the radar?â€ Really, Cathy: â€œsnuckâ€? In the Queenâ€™s English, â€œsneakedâ€ is the correct past tense and past participle of â€œsneakâ€. Some American English speakers use â€œsnuck,â€ but, really: itâ€™s substandard.

Several sentences on: â€œRather than rely the emotive (but no less important) anti-vaccine arguments this writer would like to bring a little logical perspectiveâ€. One can â€œrelayâ€ arguments or â€œrely onâ€ arguments, but hardly â€œrelyâ€ them.

(As for â€œlogical perspectiveâ€, the article is fairly devoid of it. For example, the author writes that a genetic predisposition is needed for scc of the cervix, and that Gardasil is therefore useless. Not necessarily so. Eliminating one factor in disease could help lower incidence, even if that factor is not found in all disease or sufficient on its own to cause disease.)

â€œViral particlesâ€, contrary to the authorâ€™s claim, are not found in Gardasil. Rather, â€œviral-like particlesâ€, VLPs, shells of recombinant protein, are there.

As for â€œadenomcarcinomaâ€â€“well, the author got that one right elsewhere. Still looks a bit silly, though, for a self-proclaimed â€œmedical writer/researcherâ€.

â€œA Medline search with the limit â€œrandomised clinical trialâ€ and the key word â€œGardasilâ€ returns nothing.â€ My search returns four hits from before the publication date of the â€œScoopâ€ articleâ€“two if we exclude the two NEJM reports from May 10, just a few days before the â€œScoopâ€ press date. We havenâ€™t heard from mathematician Dr. Darin Brown recently, but Iâ€™m sure he could confirm that two is greater than zero.

And so on. For reasons of time, language, and science, I couldnâ€™t read more than the first half or so of this lengthy (and, I admit, extensively if â€œactivistlyâ€ researched) article, but the density of errors was striking.

Iâ€™m confident this op-ed is not representative of the no doubt excellent and voluminous work of the â€œmedical writer/researcherâ€ in question. In fact, if she doesnâ€™t mind, I hope she will send us some references to her better pieces, which I am sure exist although my quick internet search was unable to turn them up.&quot;

Posted by: ElkMountainMan &#124; April 3, 2008 6:48 PM 


&quot;Pat, immediately after you had assured us that Sir Elkieâ€™s English lesson was well taken you wrote â€œcoughtâ€ in between a string of consonants. If thatâ€™s an allusion to the poor quality of your teacherâ€™s teachings I shall not argue. 

&lt;i&gt;Soon, I am sure, one of our denialist friends will rise to the occasion and educate us on how a squalene- and mercury-free DNA injection boosts anti-SIV immunity, and on how full-length SIV DNA, injected with nothing but the buffer itâ€™s resuspended in, can cause AIDS.&lt;/i&gt; (EMM)

Sir Elkie, tsktsktsk! Let me repeat it for you and your Poodle: you donâ€™t have an animal model of AIDS. No matter how many diversions you come up with, or how often you change the topic, thatâ€™s the fact of the matter. Get over it. 

Now you claim that Cathy or her computer made a numerical mistake when googling â€œrandomised trial gardasilâ€. Quite frankly Sir Elkie, I think most people would be more interested in who made this particular error, and how:

&lt;i&gt;In New Zealand, Merck seem rather more brazen than their US counterparts in the claims being made for Gardasil. On their website - gardasil.co.nz - information is provided for both patients and health professionals. Both are informed that HPV causes all cervical cancer. It appears that our cervixes (or our litigation laws) are different to those of the rest of the world! The information provided for doctors makes even more bizarre claims; â€œGardasil is 100% effective in protecting your patients from diseases caused by HPV 16, 18, 6 and 11â€³ including cervical cancer!â€&lt;/i&gt; 

Sir Elkieâ€™s â€œdefenceâ€ of this massive misinformation campaign was to point out that Cathy had used the word â€œsnuckâ€ in the next sentence. Iâ€™m sure Noble and Poodle were impressed.

In reponse to this,

&lt;i&gt;Merck state repeatedly on their promotional material that cervical cancer is not heritable.&lt;/i&gt;

Sir Elkie presented this argument from Cathy:

&lt;i&gt;For example, the author writes that a genetic predisposition is needed for scc of the cervix, and that Gardasil is therefore useless.&lt;/i&gt;

This happens to be pure invention. A bald-faced lie. Ten out of ten on the classical smear test. Either that or Sir Elkieâ€™s mytho-virus infection has advanced to the final stage. Cathy nowhere makes that argument. 

The result, for those of us who do not consider essential an â€œaâ€ too many in â€œMcDonaldâ€™sâ€, or one too few in â€œrelayâ€, is that Sir Elkieâ€™s most substantial critique of a long article,
systematically exposing massive fraud and disinformation from vaccine-makers, was that his medline search had turned up two hits for â€œrandomised trial Gardasilâ€, whereas Cathy claims she had none. 

This is such a perfect example of right-wing gutter politics-style smear, obfuscation and lies coming from an anonymous â€œscientistâ€ that it deserves to be archived on Newaidsreview (hereby done).

Speaking of NAR, Sir Elkie, this was submitted a couple of days ago - looks like Elks are wonderfully predictable animals:

Cathy, they are now playing their favourite game at Aetiology, which is â€œguess whoâ€. They want to find out who you are, so they can start the ad hominem (. . .) They will search through everything (they think) you or your pastor ever said to bring up against you and avoid the substantive issue. It doesnâ€™t matter who you are. If youâ€™re a nobody, they will use that against you. 

Now whoâ€™s â€œcoughtâ€?

Posted by: Molecular Entry Claw &#124; April 4, 2008 5:01 AM 

http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2008/03/objection_to_vaccination_they.php#comment-819134

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0705/S00287.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please read this classical study in the behaviour of the AIDStruth animal in its natural habitat on Aetiology. Incredibly, they are so used to these tactics that they even brag about it. First up is ElkMountainMan, the same â€œscientistâ€ who tried to spread the lying rumours that Duesberg was distancing himself from Michael Geiger, then MECâ€™s response:</p>
<p>&#8220;Soon, I am sure, one of our denialist friends will rise to the occasion and educate us on how a squalene- and mercury-free DNA injection boosts anti-SIV immunity, and on how full-length SIV DNA, injected with nothing but the buffer itâ€™s resuspended in, can cause AIDS.</p>
<p>Until then, I am left with nothing to do but retrieve my ugly pedantâ€™s cap (which I tossed into the umbrella rack after Patâ€™s English lesson) and ponder the merits in the work of a professional â€œmedical writer/researcher.â€ </p>
<p>This yawn-inspiring task began with an email I received last night from someone apparently operating under the mistaken assumption that I was interested in learning the identity of â€œCathy.â€ Attached was a Word document with the text of a May 14, 2007 opinion letter from a New Zealand publication called â€œScoop,â€ playfully entitled, â€œGardasil: The Mercky World of Anti-Cancer Vaccines.â€ The author, it was claimed, is the same Cathy who posted here of late.</p>
<p>The letter-writerâ€™s name, I soon found, is also present on David Croweâ€™s famous list of 2500 renouned scientists and doctors as a â€œmedical writer/researcher.â€ Because of these impressive denialist credentials (and since she had recently criticized my admittedly middling English skills), I decided to read her â€œScoopâ€ op-ed.</p>
<p>As I recently reminded Pat, itâ€™s best to criticize the writing of others from a position of strength. Imagine my surprise, then, (assuming Cathy is, in fact, the â€œScoopâ€ Cathy) to find numerous errors in the first few paragraphs of the piece.</p>
<p>In the letter, the author smears Gardasil as being a brand, â€œmuch like Coca Cola or MacDonaldsâ€. â€œCoca-Colaâ€ is of course hyphenated, and the fast-food giant with the golden arches is â€œMcDonaldâ€™sâ€ not â€œMacDonaldsâ€.</p>
<p>The writer asks, â€œWere Ministry of Health officials asleep when this one [Merckâ€™s assertion that Gardasil protects against HPV-associated cancer] snuck under the radar?â€ Really, Cathy: â€œsnuckâ€? In the Queenâ€™s English, â€œsneakedâ€ is the correct past tense and past participle of â€œsneakâ€. Some American English speakers use â€œsnuck,â€ but, really: itâ€™s substandard.</p>
<p>Several sentences on: â€œRather than rely the emotive (but no less important) anti-vaccine arguments this writer would like to bring a little logical perspectiveâ€. One can â€œrelayâ€ arguments or â€œrely onâ€ arguments, but hardly â€œrelyâ€ them.</p>
<p>(As for â€œlogical perspectiveâ€, the article is fairly devoid of it. For example, the author writes that a genetic predisposition is needed for scc of the cervix, and that Gardasil is therefore useless. Not necessarily so. Eliminating one factor in disease could help lower incidence, even if that factor is not found in all disease or sufficient on its own to cause disease.)</p>
<p>â€œViral particlesâ€, contrary to the authorâ€™s claim, are not found in Gardasil. Rather, â€œviral-like particlesâ€, VLPs, shells of recombinant protein, are there.</p>
<p>As for â€œadenomcarcinomaâ€â€“well, the author got that one right elsewhere. Still looks a bit silly, though, for a self-proclaimed â€œmedical writer/researcherâ€.</p>
<p>â€œA Medline search with the limit â€œrandomised clinical trialâ€ and the key word â€œGardasilâ€ returns nothing.â€ My search returns four hits from before the publication date of the â€œScoopâ€ articleâ€“two if we exclude the two NEJM reports from May 10, just a few days before the â€œScoopâ€ press date. We havenâ€™t heard from mathematician Dr. Darin Brown recently, but Iâ€™m sure he could confirm that two is greater than zero.</p>
<p>And so on. For reasons of time, language, and science, I couldnâ€™t read more than the first half or so of this lengthy (and, I admit, extensively if â€œactivistlyâ€ researched) article, but the density of errors was striking.</p>
<p>Iâ€™m confident this op-ed is not representative of the no doubt excellent and voluminous work of the â€œmedical writer/researcherâ€ in question. In fact, if she doesnâ€™t mind, I hope she will send us some references to her better pieces, which I am sure exist although my quick internet search was unable to turn them up.&#8221;</p>
<p>Posted by: ElkMountainMan | April 3, 2008 6:48 PM </p>
<p>&#8220;Pat, immediately after you had assured us that Sir Elkieâ€™s English lesson was well taken you wrote â€œcoughtâ€ in between a string of consonants. If thatâ€™s an allusion to the poor quality of your teacherâ€™s teachings I shall not argue. </p>
<p><i>Soon, I am sure, one of our denialist friends will rise to the occasion and educate us on how a squalene- and mercury-free DNA injection boosts anti-SIV immunity, and on how full-length SIV DNA, injected with nothing but the buffer itâ€™s resuspended in, can cause AIDS.</i> (EMM)</p>
<p>Sir Elkie, tsktsktsk! Let me repeat it for you and your Poodle: you donâ€™t have an animal model of AIDS. No matter how many diversions you come up with, or how often you change the topic, thatâ€™s the fact of the matter. Get over it. </p>
<p>Now you claim that Cathy or her computer made a numerical mistake when googling â€œrandomised trial gardasilâ€. Quite frankly Sir Elkie, I think most people would be more interested in who made this particular error, and how:</p>
<p><i>In New Zealand, Merck seem rather more brazen than their US counterparts in the claims being made for Gardasil. On their website &#8211; gardasil.co.nz &#8211; information is provided for both patients and health professionals. Both are informed that HPV causes all cervical cancer. It appears that our cervixes (or our litigation laws) are different to those of the rest of the world! The information provided for doctors makes even more bizarre claims; â€œGardasil is 100% effective in protecting your patients from diseases caused by HPV 16, 18, 6 and 11â€³ including cervical cancer!â€</i> </p>
<p>Sir Elkieâ€™s â€œdefenceâ€ of this massive misinformation campaign was to point out that Cathy had used the word â€œsnuckâ€ in the next sentence. Iâ€™m sure Noble and Poodle were impressed.</p>
<p>In reponse to this,</p>
<p><i>Merck state repeatedly on their promotional material that cervical cancer is not heritable.</i></p>
<p>Sir Elkie presented this argument from Cathy:</p>
<p><i>For example, the author writes that a genetic predisposition is needed for scc of the cervix, and that Gardasil is therefore useless.</i></p>
<p>This happens to be pure invention. A bald-faced lie. Ten out of ten on the classical smear test. Either that or Sir Elkieâ€™s mytho-virus infection has advanced to the final stage. Cathy nowhere makes that argument. </p>
<p>The result, for those of us who do not consider essential an â€œaâ€ too many in â€œMcDonaldâ€™sâ€, or one too few in â€œrelayâ€, is that Sir Elkieâ€™s most substantial critique of a long article,<br />
systematically exposing massive fraud and disinformation from vaccine-makers, was that his medline search had turned up two hits for â€œrandomised trial Gardasilâ€, whereas Cathy claims she had none. </p>
<p>This is such a perfect example of right-wing gutter politics-style smear, obfuscation and lies coming from an anonymous â€œscientistâ€ that it deserves to be archived on Newaidsreview (hereby done).</p>
<p>Speaking of NAR, Sir Elkie, this was submitted a couple of days ago &#8211; looks like Elks are wonderfully predictable animals:</p>
<p>Cathy, they are now playing their favourite game at Aetiology, which is â€œguess whoâ€. They want to find out who you are, so they can start the ad hominem (. . .) They will search through everything (they think) you or your pastor ever said to bring up against you and avoid the substantive issue. It doesnâ€™t matter who you are. If youâ€™re a nobody, they will use that against you. </p>
<p>Now whoâ€™s â€œcoughtâ€?</p>
<p>Posted by: Molecular Entry Claw | April 4, 2008 5:01 AM </p>
<p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2008/03/objection_to_vaccination_they.php#comment-819134" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2008/03/objection_to_vaccination_they.php#comment-819134</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0705/S00287.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0705/S00287.htm</a></p>
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